(S7Ep4) Ron and Leslie!

One of our favorite episodes and most deep, heartfelt episodes of the series. We discuss all the therapy/psychology of this relationship, from heartbreak and grief of losing a friendship to making an FBI-style murder board to figure out where it went wrong. We do understand Ben probably got a babysitter, we just had to break it down. :P 

Plus, we acknowledge the fantastic camera angles leaving Ron alone and Leslie and Ron isolated together as well. Fun fact: this is the only episode where they do not speak to camera in the "mockumentary" style. So great, well done writer, director, crew, Amy, Nick, all of the above. So glad to get to see this evolution of friendship! 

Don't forget to rate, review, and subscribe! 

Sources:

https://www.eff.org/issues/transparency/history-of-foia

https://www.foia.gov/

https://www.fabuwood.com/blog/everything-you-need-to-know-about-dovetail-joints

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leon_Trotsky

Transcript

Holly 
Okay, so welcome in everyone. We've got season seven, episode four, Ron and Leslie. And yeah, arguably one of the best episodes slash emotionally like depth giving episodes I think of the whole season.

Madi (02:50.313)
Yeah, and for some reason this episode lives so much further into the season in my brain for me. And so I actually was really excited that it was season or it was episode four because I'm like, okay, good, we're gonna get this resolution and and move forward and have the the Ron and Leslie team together for the rest of the complications that come up throughout the rest of the season.

Holly (02:57.358)
Mm-hmm.

Holly (03:12.29)
Yeah, totally, totally. So this was written by Mike Scher, which is amazing and totally makes sense because he just knows these characters inside and out and can really give us that, you know, depth that we were talking about. but this was also directed by Beth McCarthy Miller, who we know and love from SNL. I'm pretty positive him and Mike Scher and her work together on SNL. she also directed a lot of thirty rock.

also SNL crossovers, A Few Modern Families, which we love, and of course Parks and Rec, which she's directed quite a few of. I always want to bring up also The Fall of Fall and Rise of Reggie Dinkins, which is a new show on Peacock slash NBC, and it has Daniel Radcliffe and Tracy Morgan. And she directed a couple of those, a lot of them, actually. and and that show also has other amazing casts. I don't want to just pinpoint Daniel Radcliffe and Tracy Morgan, but I highly recommend watching it because it is so funny. It's also mockumentaries.

style. and I think it's like I feel like Tina Faye's involved somehow, but it's like the you that comedy realm of this mockumentary style. but it's a great, great show. So this director also directed that. So highly recommend. But yeah, we have a great writer and director team.

Madi (04:21.717)
Of course, how could you not for such an important s piece of the storyline?

Holly (04:26.444)
Yeah, and I mean each a d writer director, no matter the like story I feel for this season in particular has been on point. So it does not disappoint. okay, well I have summary written whenever you're ready.

Madi (04:34.615)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Nope.

Okay, sh literally, I know I say this sometimes short and sweet, but this is literally I wanted to just dive into the episode. So I have my summary. Ron and Leslie are forced to resolve their conflict. That's it. That's the vibe of the whole episode.

Holly (04:50.766)
I mean, yeah, that's it. Yeah. Yeah, totally. so some fun facts here, before the internet or before we get into it, the internet told me that this is the only episode of Parks and Wreck where nobody talks to the camera crew and like to have talking heads. And I was like, my gosh, I didn't even Yeah.

Madi (05:13.065)
I didn't catch that either. Wow.

Holly (05:15.15)
'Cause it w we were just so in it. But yeah, nobody talks to the camera crew as if it's a mockumentary. They're just following them.

Madi (05:21.995)
What what a what a great choice for this for this though, because I think that sometimes the talking head, like the talking head is purposeful, but it does keep you out of the scene sometimes because you're coming out of the scene with the character. And they wanted us to be fully in in this with them and you are. And I didn't realize that they had used that to help help with that feeling. That's crazy.

Holly (05:38.979)
Mm-hmm.

Holly (05:45.07)
Mm-hmm.

Holly (05:49.663)
Yeah, totally. And they don't get to like say their true feelings in the talking head. You know what I mean? Like they don't get to explain it to us. Like true feelings is probably not the right way to say it, but they don't get to explain what they're say what they're feeling in their head or like what what they actually think. You just see it all in facial expressions and you and it really helps the tension build, which is so beautiful, I think. So yeah, really interesting. I love that.

Madi (06:13.803)
Yeah, and I think it actually, you know, it forces those feelings to come out in the room. And it forces them to put their internal thoughts out on paper, no matter how long it might take.

Holly (06:19.054)
Mm-hmm.

Holly (06:23.276)
Exactly. Ca Yeah, 'cause they can't the camera crew can't be a buffer. Like they have to just talk to each other and it's really intense sometimes. which I think is also funny because the internet did bring that up too, where it was like, apparently Leslie and Ron are locked in there and the doc the doc crew doesn't care at all. They're just in there with them. And I was like, I didn't even think of that. I don't think that's who cares. That's literally just the show. But funny point.

Madi (06:28.258)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Madi (06:41.079)
Yeah.

Madi (06:45.45)
Yeah. Yeah, yeah. 'cause they don't they don't even think to ask the camera people to let them out or get somebody else in the crew to come get them. Yeah.

Holly (06:52.205)
Right.

Yeah, totally. Or maybe the in in my head, honestly, kind of the canon of the show, I made up a story that like they tricked the documentary crew too. Like they told them to just go follow them in there and 'cause they were stuck like none of the shots are from outside of the room. Like when, you know, Ben and everybody is locking them in there, nobody's in the like none of the cameras are in the in the hallway with them. They're all with Ron and Leslie. So I feel like it just got they just got stuck in there too, you know?

Madi (07:04.16)
Mm.

Madi (07:17.996)
That's so true.

Madi (07:23.072)
Yeah, I like that. I like that. Yeah.

Holly (07:24.514)
They had no access to get out either. So. and then the other thing that I just wanted to bring up again, just a fun fact, not that the internet told me, but that I really noticed because I spend a lot of time reaching out to co stars and guest stars, and there really was no one to reach out to in this episode, and it was so bizarre. There is that janitor, which I am so upset because I couldn't find his information anywhere. I don't know if he was a crew member, but he is not listed on IMDB, he's not listed on Reddit.

Madi (07:39.212)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Holly (07:53.121)
I could not find him. So if you were that janitor, because I would be curious, I went back and I couldn't quite tell because this janitor, and we'll get into a little bit, is the same one who cleans up during little Sebastian's Lil' Sebastian's memorial and it's like awkward and he's still singing the Shania Twain song or listening to the Shania Twain song. But I don't know if it's the same janitor or what, but I could not find him. So maybe I'm just maybe I just missed it and completely, you know, went over my head. But if anyone knows him or if you are him.

Please let me know because I'd love to talk to you. But but yeah, I just thought that was really interesting because I was like, my gosh, there's no other person in here. They are really focusing on Ron and Leslie. And I think they achieved something really special with that. You know, it makes the episode also on Good Hang with Amy Polar, where she interviews Nick Offerman. It makes it so much more special for me too, because I didn't I hadn't, you know, we hadn't it

analyze this before I listened to that episode. And it just really reminds me how special the relationship is between Ron and Leslie and Nick and Amy.

Madi (08:54.456)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Absolutely.

Holly (08:59.31)
Okay, so we left off Laugh episode with a to be continued and we are getting this title card saying to be continued dot dot dot right now.

Madi (09:08.482)
But I love that because it's a call back to what you taught us when we were doing episode one of this season is that they were airing these back to back. So I'm I'm so happy like now that I know that and I'm watching it, I'm like, okay, cool. We didn't have to wait a whole nother week to see what was gonna happen here.

Holly (09:15.586)
Mm-hmm.

Holly (09:24.458)
Yeah, that's true. That's so true. Yeah. so Ron's freaking out because they've taken the phones, they've taken their key cards, they told security not to disturb them under any circumstance. And Leslie tries to convince Ben to let them out because it's the Game of Thrones series finale. And I will say, I'm gonna be so honest, when I first watched this, I think I just let it slide about the Khaleesi and Jack Sparrow thing, not really knowing that this was.

Madi (09:42.103)
Hmm.

Madi (09:49.921)
Yeah.

Holly (09:52.415)
A prediction for them because also that's another thing I was gonna bring up that I kind of thought the only prediction before I analyzed this show on the podcast, like I kind of just as a watcher, I only ever think of Cubs, the Cubs winning as the prediction. But they sprinkle in so much predictions, so many predictions, I should say, that you know.

Madi (10:09.635)
yeah.

Holly (10:17.004)
Don't come true, like the whole Elton John with Chick fil A and that kind of thing. and this Jack Sparrow and Khaleesi thing, and there's just a lot going on and and the Jason Bourne and being played by Kevin James. Like there's just a all these random predictions that I think they must have had so much fun with. And I'm so glad that I'm finally seeing that because I just never really even paid attention to like, or maybe I did at the time, but now it's even more special to me to be noticing these random ass things that they maybe put in the future. So funny.

Madi (10:20.33)
Mm-hmm.

Madi (10:29.89)
Yeah.

Madi (10:35.948)
Mm-hmm.

Madi (10:47.104)
Yeah. It's i it's very fun to find the ones that are like, Okay, that was such a reach, but they wanted to make it, so

Holly (10:52.49)
Mm. Yeah, and I I love Ben's little you know, way to convince her of like it makes sense if you read the books. And I think that's just a really funny bit because, you know, every book reader will say that about the movies 'cause it's true most of the time, I feel. and so I just thought that was funny because especially with Game of Thrones, I feel,

Madi (11:02.421)
Yeah.

Madi (11:08.685)
Yeah.

Holly (11:16.438)
there's a lot of stuff like random things that happen and everyone who read the books is like, that makes sense because you read the books. But so they're just kind of using that for the Khaleesi Jack Sparrow thing, which doesn't make sense at all. but it is funny that half of the prediction came true because she says it goes off that show really went off the rails. And boy did it. I agree with that statement. So

Madi (11:28.192)
Mm-hmm.

Madi (11:34.782)
Mm-hmm. Boy did it. yeah. yeah, that thing got a mind of its own there.

Holly (11:43.201)
Yeah, they forgot a lot about they forgot about a lot of stuff. But anyhow, so yeah, I think that's a fun thing to notice about the predictions. I also love that there's a baby monitor on the table and Ben says if they figure their shit out, he'll come get them from his office. But that made me question, like, was he gonna stay in the office the whole night?

Madi (11:46.977)
Yeah.

Madi (12:05.676)
That's my question. Who has the triplets? Was my question. What's going on? Why wouldn't you just go home? Send like keep April and Andy here. Like, what are we doing? Yeah. Or or do you have to be here? Yeah. Yeah. You don't have to be at the office. Yeah, that was interesting.

Holly (12:09.592)
That's weird.

Holly (12:15.222)
Yeah. Or like have security call them or something. Yeah. I don't know.

Also, like, yeah, this part is a little bit of a break in the plot for me because i in my head I feel like they shouldn't believe them regardless if they called them on the monitor. Like they should force them literally to be in there for ten to twelve hours or whatever what I think it's ten hours total and not say, like, if you figure your shit out, you can come out. You know what I mean? I know that was like a propeller to them to like get their shit together faster kind of vibe, but I don't know if that works.

Madi (12:43.958)
Yeah.

Madi (12:52.332)
But I feel like if you know Leslie and Ron like these people do, it's like they're both stubborn. They both think they're right. Like it's not gonna be just like a a two hour situation that where they're gonna call you. Just like Leslie was like, Okay, let's just call them in like three minutes and tell them we figured it out. Like nobody's gonna believe that who actually knows you.

Holly (13:10.582)
Right. Exactly. Right. my gosh. Yeah, so that part was weird to me. Cause I'm like and there were some things on the internet too, like reviews and stuff where people were saying like they don't talk about the triplets enough in this season. and I get it, but at the same time I don't I this part, I guess, in particular, like I

Madi (13:16.834)
Yeah.

Madi (13:24.952)
Mm-hmm.

Holly (13:31.979)
I could see why people would complain about this because it is like, okay, who's watching them? But the rest of the season I don't really mind it's at at all that they don't really have the triplets because it's like they are a big part of it and they talk about them every now and again, but it's not like I know that and also note having analyzed it, we talked about this I think a couple seasons ago when she got pregnant that they didn't

Madi (13:37.045)
Mm-hmm.

Holly (13:53.505)
Leslie in particular, well, I should say Amy. Amy in particular and the producers did not want the show to really be about her being pregnant slash her having the babies. Like they wanted to keep her career and her life going as well. so that was a whole thing. But I I could un I could see why people would be like questioning this episode. Like, what? Why is why is Ben staying there?

Madi (14:13.046)
Yeah. Well

Well, and think the as a working mom, it is really cool to see that like, okay, they do mention the tw the the triplets, but sh she has her her life still, right? Like she's still the the Paul the the park lady and she's still but you know, she's not identified by being Ben's wife or being a mom. Like she has this identity outside of that, which is I think something that in our society we are starting to kind of accept.

Holly (14:26.092)
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Holly (14:36.983)
Yeah.

Madi (14:44.844)
But it's been really hard for a long time. but I think logistically as a parent, you're watching this and you're like, I'm so glad that you have your own thing and you can take the time to figure this out, but also who's watching your ki children kind of thing.

Holly (14:58.368)
Yeah. And also I feel like it's on Ben. It's not on Leslie. Like mom is not her only title. And Ben, you created this scenario, so you probably have figured something out. Yeah. Right. So we'll just, yeah. Accept that that happened. Okay.

Madi (15:01.622)
Yeah. No, one hundred percent. No, it's yeah. Yeah. One hundred percent.

Madi (15:10.666)
Mm-hmm. You have now accepted that you're being the parent at home today.

Holly (15:23.446)
All right, so let's see. Ron threatens Ben, which almost works because Ben is scared. Ron's like, I'm gonna like beat you up essentially. Which yeah, and I kinda I'm so glad they wrote this really well because they really make the audience feel exactly what Donna is feeling when she steps in and says, like, no, shut the fuck up, be a man, get your house in order. You two nope. Like, get it together. And I I felt the same exact way. So I'm glad that Donna spoke for all of us.

Madi (15:29.24)
Mm-hmm.

Madi (15:45.579)
Yeah.

Madi (15:50.656)
Yeah, I love that she that she stepped in like that with her Donna passion and it was so great. So that was that for me was one of my favorite moments. And I like that she singled them both out. Like, no, Ron, you're being aggressive to Ben, like I'm gonna shut you up, but also that doesn't discount your part in this, Leslie.

Holly (15:55.266)
Mm-hmm.

Holly (16:02.286)
Mm-hmm.

Holly (16:08.702)
Yeah, and I think Donna's been the only one that can really talk to Ron that way in a lot a lot of times. So I mean, apart from Leslie, but it's just like a different energy, you know? and then Terry's almost convinced to let them out. my god, Terry, stop it right now. I love that Ron calls him son though, when I feel like they're probably around the same age. Like, think about what you're doing, son. Terry?

Madi (16:17.41)
Yeah. It is, yeah.

Madi (16:24.426)
I can't. Dude.

Yeah. Yeah. Terry. Terry.

Holly (16:38.242)
But I'm glad that April breaks in at the last second and pulls Terry away. Very glad about that. And I talked about this last episode a little bit, but a part of me, I was like, Terry, I swear to God, if you let them out, because they because Terry, I mean, I know that they had their own issues, but if Terry hadn't like said and spoiled the beans about what each other was doing, like telling Ron what Leslie was doing, Ron wouldn't have gone as far as he did and vice versa. And I'm just like, Terry, you're not to blame and I'm proud of you.

But shut up.

Madi (17:09.248)
Yeah. Yeah, you did not create this problem, but you're not helping.

Holly (17:11.511)
Anyway.

Right. That's exactly what I meant to say. Okay, so the title card next is it's 10 four AM and they're trying to figure out a way to get out. And wow, we really learn about the upgrade to the security that they've installed, the magnetic locks, the security wire and the windows that will slice your arm open because Ron wants to wants to punch through it. Like kind of wild.

Madi (17:34.602)
Yep. I I wondered if Paquitis had come back and they were like, like Craig was like, This is not happening and we're going full full security.

Holly (17:43.211)
Yeah. Yeah, totally. Yes. And I can see how City Hall, like with the tech upgrades that happened, I guess, within the two to three years or whatever. I'm kinda surprised they didn't have some sort of like keypad entry thing anyway. But no, that makes sense. That makes sense that they would at least add the keycard thing. But the wire, I was like, What? Are we in like the FBI? But yeah. That makes sense.

Madi (17:52.012)
Mm-hmm.

Madi (17:59.799)
Mm-hmm.

Madi (18:05.748)
Yeah.

Madi (18:10.006)
Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Holly (18:12.024)
So Leslie says t back to what you were saying that they'll wait a few minutes and just lie and say they made up, but that won't even work because they can't agree on how to lie. And Leslie makes a good point in their rant in her rant sh I should say, like, I don't know. I don't believe that they would have had a friendship either if it wasn't for her.

Madi (18:32.182)
we've we've had that conversation before. Like that there are just certain characters, Ron being one of the biggest, that like he wasn't gonna go seek out relationships with all of these people. Leslie's a huge reason he has relationships with anybody in this in this parks gang because she forced the proximity of people and and wanted them to feel like a family. And yeah, so I give huge kudos to her and she's right. Like she's the reason they stayed friends for so long.

Holly (18:46.531)
Yeah.

Holly (19:01.024)
Yeah, totally. And why probably I mean, well, I have a little bit more of an analysis, on this, but I feel like it's just gonna be the whole episode 'cause that's what this episode is. But I just I feel like the reason why they that's why they didn't stay friends either because Ron could not step up and like say his what he was feeling or like just be honest or whatever. And because Leslie was no longer putting in that effort, it fell apart to me.

Madi (19:10.113)
Yeah.

Madi (19:27.384)
Mm-hmm.

Holly (19:29.164)
You know, and I know that they were both they both had issues on both sides and Leslie is not faultless. but that happens a lot in relationships sometimes where there's a lot there's one person putting in more effort and then when they stop that effort it just kind of dissolves, you know.

Madi (19:35.628)
Yeah.

Madi (19:45.312)
Yeah, it's like that analogy of of marriage, right? Like it's never fully fifty fifty. You have to like sometimes somebody's gonna only be able to give you ten percent. If you're gonna make the relationship keep going, the other person's gonna give ninety and it ebbs and flows. It doesn't always say that that one person is only giving ten percent. But it hit a point where Leslie could only give ten percent because of how busy she was and she had triplets at home and she has a husband and and he he didn't have the the push to give the ninety to keep it going.

Holly (19:59.791)
Mm.

Holly (20:07.415)
Yeah.

Holly (20:15.136)
Yeah. Especially with how much he was hurt and felt like you know, bad about the things, so

Madi (20:17.728)
Yeah. Yeah. But I yeah, I also have thoughts and feelings about that he could have tried again though too. Yeah.

Holly (20:26.486)
I agree. Yeah, I know. Well, so this is when she destroys the baby monitor in her rage. She is so now they're really not getting out. because she could not get past the lie that they would tell him then or Ben, I guess, about Ron being a perfect gentleman and I'll just lie and be sarcastic and you I was the one. And then yeah, they she's and then Ron agrees with that. He would have agreed with that, and then she smashed it.

Madi (20:36.95)
Yeah.

Holly (20:53.496)
the monitor and he's like, what if we have an emergency? I'm like, I don't know. I don't think you'll have an emergency in the parks building right now. Or office, I should say. so it's ten thirty six now PM and Leslie is noticing the differences in the office, the furniture, the pictures. Ron is whittling, which I think is hilarious that that's his go to. my God.

Madi (21:00.308)
I think it'll be fine. Yeah.

Madi (21:16.906)
Yeah. yeah. I I loved this comment that like everything had changed. But I think when you look around, it's really cool 'cause it does seem like Craig has kind of changed things around. There's different furniture, different paintings, but it's still very clearly on a government budget. Like they didn't go above and beyond and do all this fancy stuff. It's like still like stuff you could have gotten at Ch T J Max on the on the wall and yeah. Very simple, yeah. Mm-hmm.

Holly (21:32.76)
Mm. Yes.

Holly (21:40.172)
Municipal.

Holly (21:44.055)
Yeah. Bureaucratic. Yeah. Totally. And so Leslie is like, look, we have ten hours. We can either talk about it or just sit in silence. She wants to be a grown up and talk about it. And Ron at this point, I'm sorry, is being just like a big fat baby. I feel he's just like, No, I don't want to talk about it. I'd rather sit in silence and just like stew in my stubbornness. And I don't know, I just feel like this is where Leslie is showing up a little bit more, you know?

Madi (22:08.72)
Mm. She is. And I'm a little surprised by Ron here, just because this is very season one through three or four, Ron. When he meets Diane, he really starts to push himself to be vulnerable and have those hard conversations when he has emotions. And you have to be able to do that if you're gonna be in a in a marriage, right? So it looks like he's stepped up in his marriage, but what's holding him back from being able to have the hard conversation here with Leslie? 'Cause

Like this is an important relationship and you're right, we don't see him really trying. She kind of really has to force him into it.

Holly (22:44.344)
Yeah, a hundred percent. Yeah. So I mean, there are moments where I can definitely empathize with how much he felt hurt and betrayed and all these things that were really hard to get over. so like I don't expect him at this point in the episode to just give in. Like I wasn't I mean, I s I thought he was being a baby, sure, but I also understood like, okay, well we're just into the evening

She broke the monitor. So let's just give it a little bit more time. But then as it goes on, it's like, okay, are we doing this? Or are you really you're really just gonna sit here in silence and I and just be stubborn. And I felt like that was just and because that's comfortable to him. Because I mean, with this is very psychological because this is an emotionally deep episode. But I feel like we always do that thing, and I think about it a lot where we'd rather stay in the safe.

hell than like the unsafe heaven or not heaven but unsafe like, you know, healthy thing. And it's comfortable to him to stay stubborn. So he's just like, I'll just stay here, please, thank you. Instead of instead of trying and going outside of the comfort zone.

Madi (23:40.416)
Mm.

Madi (23:48.972)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. I think we're just gonna therapise this entire episode. Is that's what it's gonna be. I I think I put myself in I put myself in Leslie's shoes and I get a little sad because it's like I I get where you like totally agree with you, right? Like he's not gonna hop in within the first hour and just start sp spilling his feelings everywhere, regardless of how much he's grown. But

Holly (23:58.766)
A hundred percent.

Holly (24:14.254)
Mm-hmm.

Madi (24:18.452)
As Leslie, you hit a point where you're like, My our friendship isn't worth the hard conversation. Like I have to scream, I have to scream saying at you.

Holly (24:25.367)
Right.

Yeah. Yeah, totally. That's so true. Yeah. Good call. Ugh. So then we've got Leslie saying that she bets that she can make Ron talk and we get this montage of all these things that she's trying to do to get him to talk. Hitting him, blowing a fan on him, dripping water, insulting wood. I love the covering him in post its. That was my favorite one.

Madi (24:51.092)
Yeah, I know. I love that. And the way they the way they shoot it and bring it to you as the audience is so funny too. Yeah. It's a great thing. There's a it's a very similar here to there's a episode and a see a scene in Brooklyn nine nine where Jake is trying to annoy a confession out of somebody. Have you seen that?

Holly (24:56.046)
Yeah. my god, it's so funny.

Holly (25:06.39)
Mm.

Holly (25:10.478)
no I haven't.

Madi (25:12.576)
And he's like the last one is he has his guitar out and he's just scream yelling in the person's face. And it's it's obviously not the exact same copy, but it's the same idea. And so it was it yeah, it's cool to see that they're kind of recycling but in a unique way. So yeah.

Holly (25:23.074)
Similar.

Yeah. Yeah. my gosh, that's so true. there's a couple of other deleted scenes or like alts or whatever, extended scenes, if you will, of Ron of Leslie trying to get Ron to talk and I just wanna it's only like thirty seconds, so I was like, Let me just go ahead and a and play it because Leslie does like impressions and voices and it's just really funny.

Madi (25:43.512)
Yeah.

Holly (25:50.682)
wait. Can you hear that? wait, hang on. I've been

Holly (26:29.134)
Yes, that's what she calls the drip, drip, drip, from the straw. But that point where she was like imitating Ron, she was like, you know, using her fingers and like pinching the side of his mouth to, you know, like a puppet talking or whatever. And I was like, my god, that's so funny. I know. And also it's just fun to see Leslie and or or Amy and Nick together. I think about this episode similarly to when they work together getting

Madi (26:30.232)
Yeah.

Yeah. So funny.

Madi (26:45.302)
I can't believe that didn't get him.

Holly (26:58.346)
jam out of Tammy's clutches, like the whole, you know, when she was im impersonating Tammy and they just had montages of them, like of things that would make you laugh if you if this was real life, I feel. they just have such a good chemistry together. It's so funny. my gosh. And just how fun that would have been for Leslie because I don't know how or for Amy, because I don't know how much of that was like improvised. I'm sure it was like written to have alternates and stuff.

Madi (27:13.387)
Mm-hmm.

Holly (27:25.068)
But how easy it probably was for Amy to improvise and just go crazy with him, you know? Yeah, totally.

Madi (27:29.546)
Yeah. And do some fun runs. Yeah. For sure. So cool. Yeah. I w it came up on my feed the other day, her imitation of Christopher Walken on SNL. And yeah, and so hearing her do Robert De Niro and like, you know, all that. It's just like she's so good at that. Like and you brought up Tammy. It was like a copy and paste of Megan Malale almost. So

Holly (27:41.998)
Holly (27:47.01)
Yeah.

Holly (27:50.624)
Yeah, it's so funny.

Holly (27:55.461)
my god, so funny.

Madi (27:57.514)
So cool that she got to do it here.

Holly (27:59.896)
Yes. So at ten fifty five PM, we've got her putting on the mixtape she made for a summer barbecue two thousand seven. And she's gonna play We Didn't Start the Fire on Repeat, which is hilarious that Jerry chose that song. and because I'm not like mad about that song, I feel and I would have expected Jerry to pick some a song that I was not into.

Madi (28:15.81)
Yeah.

Madi (28:23.169)
Yeah.

Holly (28:24.511)
Which side note, okay, so this was like in one of the trivia things that I always find on IMDB where it was like he picked this because or and he didn't pick it because of this, but they were saying that Billy Joel was married to Chrissy Brinkley. And I was like, Why did you put that on this?

Like IMDB, that doesn't make sense. Like who cares? Not who cares, but like how what does it have to do with this? But I did not realize that Christy Brinkley and Billy Joel dated or or s and were married and they were like a huge power couple in the eighties. And I'm sorry for the people that were born in the eighties or maybe just remember that because I did not. they divorced in ninety four, but they were like a huge power couple. So that's like the six degrees of separation where Terry Jerry Larry is married to Gail, aka Christy Brinkley, who is married in real life to Billy Joel, and now we're getting Billy Joel's song.

Madi (28:47.519)
Yeah.

Holly (29:13.355)
We didn't start the fire. So I was like, okay. I understand.

Madi (29:15.072)
Yes. Yep. Yeah. Very cool. Well and and I'm assuming somebody on the the cast likes the or the the original doc documentary style crew likes this song because they use it in the office as well. For Ryan Started the Fire. Yeah. So not not that it would have to be somebody liking the song, but I wonder if that's that's a driver too.

Holly (29:30.645)
Mhm. Yeah, with Ryan started the fire. Yeah, totally.

Holly (29:40.779)
Yeah, maybe, maybe. but yeah, it is funny, like you said with Brooklyn Nine Nine, I I kinda had in my notes that I like seeing what they used in both shows, you know what I mean? and how they use it in different ways though. You know what I mean? It's really interesting.

Madi (29:49.427)
Mm. Yeah.

Madi (29:54.614)
Yeah. Yeah, it's like a it's not an exact copy and paste. It's not lazy. It's this was hilarious. How do we put this here and make and use it again in a unique way?

Holly (29:59.824)
Mm-hmm.

Holly (30:05.665)
Yeah. And honestly, I mean, we didn't start the fire as like fun and songwriting greatness as it is. It's annoying as hell if you don't know the words, A, which nobody really does. I mean, I'm sure there's like people like super fans out there who know all the words. Okay. But like the common average person might not know all of the words and like just the repeat of Yeah. Yeah.

Madi (30:15.232)
Mm-hmm.

Madi (30:20.802)
Yeah.

Madi (30:24.738)
There's a lot of

Holly (30:27.447)
And just the like constant repeat. So like this is a good choice of a song to annoy the hell out of someone, especially in the way that Leslie does it. And I was kinda wondering if Amy improvised these lyrics because like I can't imagine just memorizing these lyrics. I mean, sure, she absolutely could have. But that would be a question for Mike Sher or her if I ever get a chance to meet her. Because I was just like thought it was so funny because she was it's just random shit. Like she says pee-pee poopy daddy ate a squirrel. What?

Madi (30:54.89)
Yeah.

Holly (30:57.103)
And so I just thought the and she was like, I'm gonna maintain I know, I hope so too. But the idea like I'm gonna maintain eye contact and guess what? I don't know the words and just getting in there. yeah, it's so funny. It was so good.

Madi (30:58.39)
I hope she got to improvise.

Madi (31:11.17)
Yeah. So good. Love it.

Holly (31:14.905)
So then we've got eleven one PM. so really only like six minutes in between the f the last one. And she says once again, it is up to her to save their friendship, which we talked about is true, even though I know she was like forced into doing this. Cause she wasn't gonna do this willingly, but or at least being locked in the room with him. But now that she's here, that is one thing I do like about Leslie. Like it's hard and I'm gonna just try to do it if I'm forced to do it. You know what mean?

Even though I know that she like I said, I I I fully understand that she wouldn't have done this had she not been made to go in there. but anyhow, she says, I will use the most powerful tool known to man, a well organized chart. Love this. And she made a timeline of their relationship, which honestly great idea. I think it's a really good idea to just try to see I mean, especially with me being like and I think you can relate like, you know,

Madi (31:58.114)
Yes.

I I yeah, agree.

Holly (32:08.962)
or organizing it and kind of seeing like where the pieces fell apart. I think it's interesting. And w depending on how far you've gotten along in the, you know, relationship, maybe it doesn't matter at that point. But I think now that we're here and we're trying to analyze it and she's trying to figure out where it fell apart, I think that's a great idea to have a timeline of their relationship.

Madi (32:30.528)
I agree. Yeah, I think it's great for the people working through the problem, but also it was a great way to fill the audience in on everything we've missed in the middle in a really clear way.

Holly (32:40.014)
Hundred percent. Yes. Yeah. Great like writing tool here. Wonderful.

Madi (32:46.368)
Mm, absolutely. I did I did question a little bit. I was like, Leslie, you have three minutes. Like you should have talked about the timeline, not within the three minutes, because I feel like we should want Ron to be talking in the middle of the three minutes. But but still it 'cause it wor it all works out in the end how they how they time it and everything. But

Holly (32:58.48)
yeah.

Holly (33:03.758)
Right. Yeah. Yeah. So we learned that there was a zombie biker gang pizza jamboree, which honestly is a fantastic theme. I really actually love that. Good job, April.

Madi (33:14.912)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Great and very April.

Holly (33:18.69)
Yes, very April. this was her going away party because Leslie left. Then she took Terry, then she took April, and April had a going away party, which this was the theme for. And then we get a flashback of Ron visiting Leslie three months after she hired April, which we don't know why he's visiting her at this point. We just see that, you know, he wanted to have lunch with her. and then this is

Back to the timeline where we get that Ron quits and didn't tell Leslie. And Leslie's like, okay, well, I could even understand that. Like, it's a matter of time. He didn't really love government anyway, so who cares? Whatever. But then we finally get an answer to Morningstar. This is the part where I was like, such a good job telling us what that is, using this timeline, like we just said. and we learn how this kind of fell apart here. And I gotta say.

Madi (33:58.655)
Yes.

Holly (34:10.957)
Because I don't know what happened later on, but even a part of me, if I did know what was going on, I kinda think Leslie has a right to be mad here. Like I know we don't know everything, whatever, but he's building apartments next to the lot, that she worked for her whole career. And I understand that part I'm not as mad about, like blocking the views, like, okay, I I get it, but also I do agree with Ron in the sense and that was nice of him, I suppose, to say.

you know, people need apartments, but also like you built a really good lot and people want to live next to a park and that's really nice. And like so I could even sort of kinda understand, but the Anne house and all the other houses around it, that I was like, that's really hard because you knew she would be upset about that. And you didn't even like tell her or have a conversation or even an email or anything. He just big fat did it anyway. And

Madi (34:43.926)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Madi (34:57.624)
Mm-hmm.

Madi (35:05.089)
Yeah.

Holly (35:05.909)
I just and this wasn't even this was the other part, and I know maybe I'm over analyzing it, but I feel like I'm being like Leslie, as Leslie would in this scenario, over analyzing it because we want to understand what's going on. This part wasn't even during the three years of like unfriendship. This was like when it had slowly started to disintegrate. And maybe in Ron's head, he 'cause that's I was trying to

empathize or like look at it from his side. Maybe in Ron's head he didn't even like think that they were friends anymore or he was like, We're done. I'm not gonna tell her that we're done being friends, but in my head the relationship's done. So let's just go ahead and move on because I don't think she'd even wanna talk to me anyways, even if I didn't do this kind of thing. Like we're not friends anymore. So I'm cool to just do it. But I still feel like you can't negate all of the history you guys have been through and knowing that she was gonna be mad about it or sad about it. You know what I mean?

Madi (35:35.042)
Yeah.

Madi (35:59.0)
Yeah, well and I Yeah, and I think Ron so clearly knows what Anne meant to leans to Leslie. Right? Like and she brings up all these really good points, like I put my wedding dress on there, this is where Andy and April met. you know, just all these monumental things, the smoky eye look. I mean, there's so many things that happened at Anne's house, like when we first met spent

Holly (35:59.468)
And so that part was really sucky.

Holly (36:17.709)
The smokey eye. The first ever smokey eye.

Madi (36:27.17)
Freddie Spaghetti. It was in the pit right next to, you know, like there's just so much that happened around Ann's house that for us as viewers too, it's emotional that her house is gonna be taken down. And but I I agree with you. I think there there's just something in Ron where in his head, when he came to talk to Leslie, that was him trying. And it fell through. And so he's like, I did my part, which not act not accurate, but

Holly (36:33.422)
Mm-hmm.

Holly (36:38.221)
Yeah, I agree.

Holly (36:48.909)
Yeah.

Madi (36:56.042)
in his head, I did my part and you know, here now, like you said, here's where we lie. We're not the friends we used to be, and so I can just do my job and and she'll find out when she finds out.

Holly (36:57.231)
Totally.

Holly (37:07.565)
Yeah. Right. Yeah. Totally. So I can see what each person is thinking in the moment. But to me, I was like, even a professional courtesy, like even if you're not friends, I don't know, it just that's really tricky. But yeah, maybe he d was like, Well, we're not even professional like professionally acquainted anymore because I don't work there. So, you know, who cares?

Madi (37:31.478)
Yeah.

Holly (37:32.589)
But yeah, and you're right. I feel like Anne's House was definitely you know, the second set. Our first set is City Hall and our second set for the longest time in this show was Anne's House because that's where everything happened. and yeah, like parties happened there and all the things she mentioned before. So yeah, it was really sucky, but yeah, that I mean I'm glad that we at least learn what Morningstar is so that we can be on board.

Madi (37:58.422)
Yeah. Well, and they did a great job naming it because there's no way any of us were gonna guess what Morningstar was.

Holly (38:05.589)
Right, totally. my gosh. Side note, I meant to say this earlier, but I just never looked it up. I was like, we haven't really gotten on to the topic, so whatever. But Morningstar is a brand of like veggie burgers and veggie like products. And every time I hear that.

Madi (38:20.992)
Yeah.

Holly (38:24.693)
I think of the turkey veggie bacon and it's not veggie, or it's not turkey, but they just call it turkey bacon, whatever. And it's like the veggie version. I think about that all the time because that was like the one of the biggest things at Brooklyn was and me, I guess, were vegetarians like a long time ago. And that still I would still eat that if you know, now. but I just think about it all the time. It's so funny.

Madi (38:47.754)
Yeah. I think you you had them in our freezer at some point, like the the burger patties. Cause I recognize that that brand exactly that's what lived in my head when they said Morningstar too. But I j but yeah, so funny. Morning Star box. I wonder if that's where they got it from.

Holly (38:52.601)
Probably.

Holly (38:58.229)
Yes. It's Morningstar Farms.

But I mean, I don't know. It's so funny. But I mean, it can serve both purposes, I feel, because she's right when Leslie does the dear, I live at Morningstar and blah, blah, blah. It does kind of sound like that in a way. so it could work for both, but I just can't I can't get past it personally, because I use that brand myself, but it's just so funny.

Madi (39:17.184)
Yeah. Yeah.

Madi (39:25.975)
Yeah.

Madi (39:29.674)
Yeah. I love it. When she says it in that accent it makes me think of her like that's the name of a racehorse.

Holly (39:35.128)
Yeah. my gosh, totally. That could work too. Yep. also in one of my notes I had that the mock up of Morningstar, like the little tripod thing, one sheet in Ron's office is a nod to previous episodes with logos for Norton's Building Company, which is the company that Mark goes to work for after season two. And I remember and I think Rest in St. James also use them too, the one that built the Pawnee Commons.

Madi (39:57.216)
Yeah, okay.

Holly (40:05.047)
I do think that we did a breakdown on Norton's. I didn't go back in my notes because it was like too much, but I I'm pretty positive. I have like a visceral memory of seeing Norton's construction on a truck that they that Mark maybe has, or maybe it was when they I think they used that company to like take the pit out or whatever and on the side of the tractors.

Or take the dirt out of the pit or fill the pit is what I mean to say. Jeez, can't speak. but yeah, it had Norton's on the tractors and I like, my god, that's so funny. And I think there was an actual I think that's why I remember it because I do feel like there's an actual company called Norton's, but that's not it wasn't based in any reality or anything. They just called it that. But I think that was a funny callback because we've been talking about in this season that they're gonna bring back stuff from season one, two and on. So that's great that they had this other callback.

Madi (41:02.06)
Yeah. Very cool. Bringing it full circle.

Holly (41:05.953)
Yes, definitely. Okay. which by the way, I guess they're just the contractor because I I thought that Ron's office would have done all of that. But maybe they're like partnering, you know what mean? So th they do that.

Madi (41:18.144)
Mm, yeah. Yeah, good question. Sometimes they do joint ventures, like companies will will join together because the scope is just past what they're used to or one's better than the other.

Holly (41:23.243)
Right. Mm-hmm.

Yeah. Totally. okay, so yeah. And then she even brings up not only did she tear down did he tear down Anne's house, but he also spent the next couple of years. That was the other thing too, where I was like a little hurt, where he's start he fight he fought all the park stuff that they'd worked on together, like zoning permits and ordinances and all these things that

Like she passed, in her time as city council. And so it's just like and to me, I know it's dramatic to Ron and maybe to other people, but when she says the final twist of the knife, I was like, Yeah, that seems accurate. I mean, it just especially with and when she says like basically spitting on everything we did at parks. And yeah, that's like a really I would be mad too. And sad. Exactly.

Madi (42:08.854)
Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Madi (42:21.398)
It feels personal, right? Yeah. Yeah. That's what that's what sucks about it.

Holly (42:25.953)
Yeah, because it's not right, because this whole I mean, I struggle with the phrase like it's not personal, it's just business regardless. But in this instance for sure, it's very much both. It's very much personal, I think. Because I don't think he would have done all of this stuff had it not been for his fight. He might have eventually gotten around to building an apartment building. That makes sense for his building company. but I do think he would have at least talked to Leslie about it or figured out a way to not be as shitty, you know?

Madi (42:55.552)
Yeah, yeah. If they were still friends, that would've it would have looked very different in my opinion.

Holly (42:57.816)
Hmm.

Yeah, and it wouldn't have been all roses. I'm not saying that. They would have fought for sure. But they would have done their Ron and Leslie fighting. Yeah, a hundred percent. So anyhow, Ron says that's not the whole story, but the timer is up. And that to back to your point of like, okay, now we have nothing to respond to, or he can't respond to anything in that three minutes.

Madi (43:03.551)
yeah. yeah. But they fought when their friendship was at the best. Yeah.

Holly (43:23.417)
But that was really important of a three minute moment f to l for him to listen to so that it could spark this idea that it's not the whole story. and he could get into that. But it turns out that he was whittling a key and he goes into his old office and locks himself in. my god. And this part too. This was the part where I was like, She spilled the beans and like, you know, tried to get through it and Ron just locks himself in a room. Like you're literally being a toddler.

Madi (43:26.806)
Yeah.

Madi (43:31.904)
Yeah.

Madi (43:48.534)
Well yeah, and you're making such great progress. Like why are you all of a sudden like like you're gonna go hide? Like she's being on honest and vulnerable with you. She's put it out on the table, and then you're gonna leave her on this cliffhanger that that's not the full story, and then go lock yourself in an office. It's just yeah. Very ch very childlike, like you said from earlier.

Holly (43:54.873)
Yeah.

Holly (44:08.129)
Yeah, and I wonder well, it's funny too, because I was thinking, like Leslie is used to dealing with her kids now who are toddlers and so I'm a part of me noticed a mom like side come out to her and be like, Okay, progress. He closed the door, but he, you know, we talked about it.

Madi (44:26.282)
Yeah. Not getting overly upset about it, just being like, All right, this is how this is how he's gonna process his emotions as a toddler.

Holly (44:32.953)
Totally. my gosh. I remember very specifically a moment like that happened with my mom where like I so maybe he's not being a toddler, maybe he's being like a teenager because I did this in in high school where like I didn't a lot of times I would just shut down if she was mad at me. But I like yelled back one time and she was like, Okay, I'm glad you talked about it. And I was like, and at the moment I was like, but now I'm looking back, I'm like, that's brilliant. What a great mom thing to say at that point in time. Like

Madi (44:53.236)
Yeah

Madi (44:59.306)
Yeah. Yeah. She encouraged you to voice your Yeah.

Holly (45:03.125)
Yeah, even if it's not easy or even if you're not really like making a lot of sense, you y and you yelled or whatever, like you're saying something and not just shutting down, that's helpful.

Madi (45:10.902)
Yeah. Yeah. That was yeah, that's a great moment. That's awesome.

Holly (45:15.979)
Yeah, it really is and I remember it. but so I kinda noticed that with Leslie too, about like, you know, she maybe she's like tapping into her mom's side.

Madi (45:22.24)
Yeah.

Madi (45:27.466)
Yeah. Well and I think the fact that maybe it's even the fact of her s him saying that's not the full story and not just being silent, right? Like giving he it's almost like he wants to talk about it maybe because he's giving her this this little crumb to like hold latch onto. Like, my gosh, I'm missing something. We've gotta keep talking about this.

Holly (45:33.025)
Mm-hmm.

Holly (45:38.862)
Yeah.

Right. Yeah.

Yeah. And I will say, I mean, when you think about it, I do think that Ron I mean, I do think that Leslie is Ron's probably closest vulnerable friend. Like I think he talks about having that one guy that he said he was best friends with or close with that they never said a word to each other. Yeah, we still never talk sometimes. Yes. And so this relationship I think is

Madi (46:05.996)
They still never t we still never talk all all the time. Yeah.

Holly (46:14.543)
pulling him in a way that we've never seen before. and this is the first big fight that they've had like this. they've had big fights, but like this is like they've never fallen out before. You know what I mean? So I do kind of see I c I again, like we said, it's not accurate or it's not good, but I can see from his side that this is the first time he's ever had to deal with a situation like this to actually openly talk about

Madi (46:28.736)
Yeah.

Holly (46:43.595)
what is going wrong or what's hurting you and because relation and I've said this before and I'll say it till the cows come home. I think friendships and like friend relationships are harder sometimes than romantical relationships. Because or like if you're there it's just cr there's so much more effort I think you have to put into it because you're not tied to them. You know what I mean? Like you can walk away at any second. And but

Madi (46:58.444)
Yeah.

Madi (47:07.828)
Absolutely.

Holly (47:12.089)
To keep coming back, to keep putting in that effort, to keep being vulnerable and like understanding where each other's coming from, that's harder to me.

Madi (47:12.79)
Yeah.

Madi (47:19.8)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, you don't live with them. You don't get to see them every day. It takes extra effort to think I need to I want to reach out to this person. Not I need to I want to reach out to this person. I'm gonna make time to reach out to this person because I

Holly (47:22.722)
Yeah, that's true.

Madi (47:32.468)
You know, you have an obligation, especially once you have a family, you have an obligation to your spouse, right? That you're you're there all the time to support each other through everything. That obligation in friendship is something that's a choice every day. Like it is too in marriage, but like it's just it's just easy it's more accessible. So, yeah.

Holly (47:36.815)
Mm-hmm.

Holly (47:48.366)
Yeah. Yeah. Totally. And I think it's I don't know, once you have a family, I mean, maybe some people don't feel this way, but I think that it's easier to walk away from a friendship like logistically, if that makes sense. Like when you have a family or a marriage or whatever, there's like so much like hoops you have to jump through and so it's like you really think a little bit more about it. Maybe. I don't know. Maybe and not everyone thinks that way, but

Madi (48:01.93)
Mm-hmm. Yes.

Madi (48:12.14)
Yeah, and if if there's conflict yeah, and if there's conflict because of that, right, you the effort you put in to keep to keep the marriage together, to keep the family together, right? so that you're staying away from those hoops and so that you're taking care of the family, like you said, and it's it's an easier string to pull when it's a friendship.

Holly (48:31.727)
Mm. Yeah, I agree. And that's not to say that you shouldn't get divorced if you need to get divorced, okay? Because I can speak on that. Okay. Yes. Yes. But yeah, so as I j yes, absolutely. And your kids. but as you Yeah, so z in this moment especially, is is kinda when I'm like, okay, I think Ron is like

Madi (48:37.78)
Yes, absolutely. Yes. W We're b yeah, we are both strong component proponents of doing what you gotta do for your own health and safety. And yeah.

Madi (48:53.975)
Yes.

Holly (49:00.259)
This is the most he's ever struggled with a friendship because he's he doesn't have anyone besides Diane, who is a different type of relationship, that he has to really own up to, speak to, because it's easy, like I said, that comfort zone. It's easy for him to just be like, I don't want to talk about it. The end. It's harder to be vulnerable. And so that's what he's sticking to. And that's where his hurt is so much stronger, I think, because he didn't have that.

conflict as much with her and they are BFFs or were BFFs. But anyhow, I still think he's being a big fat baby, but I can understand a little bit of like his choices and his thought process here.

Madi (49:36.354)
Yeah.

Madi (49:41.462)
Yeah. Yeah. And and I think you look at the other person he's probably closest to out in this entire group is April and she's not gonna create conflict 'cause she doesn't want to go through conflict either. So so this is yeah. I did I did time this, this conversation. It went from about five minutes and twenty six seconds into the episode to about eight minutes and sixteen seconds. So pretty close to actually three minutes. and I was thinking about it before I did the timing, like

Holly (49:47.149)
Mm.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's a yeah, that's a whole other thing. Yeah.

Holly (50:05.085)
wow.

Madi (50:10.29)
Should I be lenient with the the cut to the flashback or no, because it's them talking about the the situation. Yeah, it was pretty close to three minutes, so it's pretty cool. They did a good job.

Holly (50:16.921)
Thinking about it. Yeah.

Holly (50:21.121)
Nice, that is cool. Yeah, I love that. Ha the accuracy. Okay, so let's see, we're moving on. Eleven fifty five PM. Leslie is going through all the reasons why he might hate her. Which side note the internet found that when the we didn't start the fire song was going on, the office door is open, but in the next scene it's closed. Bless you. And Ron unlocks it with his wooden key. But I don't know if that's true. I actually did not scan back.

Madi (50:25.142)
Yeah.

Holly (50:50.817)
to find out. I'll have to look at it again. But anyhow, just wanted to point that out for those people that want to go look at that. Okay. anyway, the Whole Foods comment is so funny. Ron thinks it's called complete food. my gosh. I love

Madi (50:54.786)
Yeah.

Madi (51:04.12)
I love it so much. Spoken like somebody who does not shop there.

Holly (51:10.881)
A hundred percent. side note, I don't know that I would shut the place down for having the roach spray near the produce, but I definitely would not be happy about it. You know what mean? Right, exactly. And I don't know, my gosh, this really speaking of my mom, that's so funny. I wrote also that my I sometimes when I wipe the counter with Clorox, I'll like just leave it out on the counter, like 'cause I'm still doing stuff. And she always notes like, why is this?

Madi (51:22.326)
I wouldn't be buying my produce there. Yeah.

Holly (51:40.271)
Clorex out because it's like our counter also has food on it. And I'm like, great point, honestly, great point. I get it. It just made me and also the cats being out and stuff like that. So anyhow, yeah, I don't know. I la I could definitely see Leslie shutting that place down though, for that reason.

Madi (51:43.972)
yeah.

Madi (51:57.344)
Yeah. Yeah.

Holly (51:58.852)
Yeah, kinda like the dollar store, how everything's just kinda crowded in there. It's called food and stuff. Okay? They sell food and stuff. Or and stuff, if you're spelling it correctly. Okay, so this is when Me too. Yes. So now he comes out and brings his partially diffused Claymore mine, 'cause he's still trying to get out.

Madi (52:02.358)
Yeah. No rhyme or reason. Yeah.

Madi (52:10.878)
And stuff. Yeah. Love the callback to food and stuff too. In this in the final season. Great.

Holly (52:26.143)
Which I thought was kind of funny. Like he gives up on locking himself in the room pretty quickly, like coming back out. He comes out of the room pretty quickly because he finds this other ways, to try to get out. But I love that this is a callback too, because we always wondered why this was on his desk. And to be honest with you, I totally forgot about this part. I d I remembered it when he brings it out. but while we were analyzing like the last couple of seasons when we were like, Why does he just have an active landmine or partially active landmine or whatever the fuck?

Madi (52:31.926)
Yeah. Yeah.

Madi (52:45.409)
Yeah.

Holly (52:56.467)
yeah, I totally forgot about this because it's not a landmine. It's balloons when he goes to blow it up, for his fifth anniversary of parks. And it's still the shell, so it's still a co it's not a complete lack of history. Okay. Like he when he says, like, So you mean to tell me that I've had a toy on my desk? It's not re I mean, it is a a little bit of a toy, but it still has the outside of it. I don't think it's completely a waste, Ron, you know.

Madi (53:21.725)
No, and it seems like it mechanically functions the same way. It's just not explosives inside.

Holly (53:24.591)
Right. You've been doing an explosive job. I love that. my gosh, that was funny.

Madi (53:29.464)
It also really made me think of Ron's timeline. Like if he if she had started working there and he hit his five year anniversary when she worked there, what was he doing before?

Holly (53:43.29)
Great question. Okay, so 1 57 a.m. We're getting into the early morning hours. Leslie is still trying to figure out why Ron is mad at her by going through all the old projects. She's got papers all over the conference table and it's just chaos. And then she basically has like an investigation murder board going on, and she thinks it's a code that she is going to crack. and it it does. Whoever did that, props apartment, whoever did that board.

Madi (53:43.692)
Yeah.

Holly (54:10.339)
Fantastic job. There's so much detail and craziness going on there.

Madi (54:14.518)
Yeah, it's so good. And I think this is another example of Leslie going all in, like full a hundred, to f to save this friendship. Like that's what she spent her time doing out there. And what has he been doing?

Holly (54:27.715)
Yes, totally. Or at least like I feel like it's half and half. It's like half to save the friendship and it's half to like just figure out why, like what happened. You know what I mean? like I think that's killing her to not know where it went wrong. Like what happened exactly. And if he's not gonna talk to me, I'm gonna have to try to figure it out myself, like I always do, you know?

Madi (54:34.781)
Mm, yeah. Yeah.

Madi (54:43.212)
Yeah.

Madi (54:48.628)
Yeah. Well I think she prides herself on being such a such a good friend. It's probably really eating her up inside of like, I can't why do I not know where I messed up?

Holly (54:52.547)
Mm-hmm.

Holly (54:58.391)
I know, which we'll talk about a little bit later, but that is the part that kind of made me sad where, you know, she just she wasn't a good friend in some ways, you know. But anyhow, so okay. Leslie finds her job application. she got it by using the Freedom of Information Act request, which is a real thing. I did a tiny bit of a breakdown on what that is. I mean, it's pretty self explanatory in the act name itself.

Madi (55:07.318)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Holly (55:27.341)
But yeah, you can request any information. You're free to request that. this was in the nineteen nineteen forty-six. no, wait, sorry, not nineteen forty-six. This act was originally championed by the Democratic Congressman John Moss from California between fifty-four and fifty-five, after a series of proposals during the Cold War led to a steep rise in government secrecy under President Harry Truman. So the everyone was really mad about the government withholding information rather than disclosing it.

And there was a lot of government you know, tension and all that kind of stuff. And so Moss found support. This guy that championed it, Moss, found support from editors, journalists, newspapers. but he couldn't find Republican co-sponsors until way later, which that tracks. During the Kennedy and Johnson administrations, he received support from a young representative named Donald Rumsfeld and then President Johnson, who is a fellow Democrat, which is I think is kind of

interesting. he did not support it. President Johnson was a Democrat and but he did not really want this Freedom of Information Act to happen and he had a lot of concerns about it. But he ended up signing it in nineteen sixty six. And what I found is a fun fact is that he usually did all these signings publicly on July fourth, but he did not do it publicly. He did it kind of behind closed doors. And he did it though.

and I I wonder if that's just because of his opposition. He didn't want to do it publicly. But anyway, it wasn't until nineteen seventy-four that the Watergate scandal happened, and the Nixon administration, all this stuff happened, that Congress finally amended this act to be the bill that it is today. So, like it was happening and I it was signed into law in nineteen sixty six and then after all these scandals and not releasing information and stuff, they

made it what it is today. And they do have nine exemptions. I did not go through all nine, but the biggest ones are national security and law enforcement. So if there's anything that is going to leak for national security or things like that that's classified, that cannot be requested. But yeah, you can absolutely request your old applications. and then I looked up like where you can request it from. And I did see, funnily enough, I thought this was a funny little moment that

Holly (57:47.464)
there are some requests that require a notary stating that you are in fact who you say you are. You have to prove that it's not just some rando requesting that it is in fact you. And so it's like, Terry could be an asset in this too. Maybe she got Terry to notarize her request. So funny. But at the same time, I d you know, I don't think I don't know if that timeline works out because Terry, I think, had said that he just got that, like

Madi (58:00.266)
Yeah.

Madi (58:03.712)
I would not be surprised.

Holly (58:14.807)
a couple years ago and I'm assuming that she's had that forever. So I'm sure she got it notarized somewhere. Yeah, really. I think she's just been holding on to it. but yeah, I'll put I know. She I don't know, man. She's just in her desk. It's not like Ron would ever go in there.

Madi (58:18.208)
Yeah, since she started.

Madi (58:23.434)
Yeah. Where did she have it hidden?

Madi (58:30.998)
So true, but sh it's not her desk anymore.

Holly (58:33.357)
Yeah, that's true. Yeah, that's true. Where'd she get all these documents? Yeah, that's true. Great call. Good call. I don't know. Yeah. there is a w I'll post in the no show notes like where you can request this from or like where all the information is if you are interested. Like you can request federal, state, local information if that's, you know, something that you are interested in. And that is you'll notice too, the more I was reading about it, the more

Madi (58:35.244)
Maybe she just left it behind. Yeah.

Holly (59:01.563)
I I my memory is kinda jogged. You'll notice on some job applications it'll say that, like, are you okay if we like keep this record or whatever? I can't remember. It's like a box you have to check off. And anyhow, so yeah, Freedom of Information Act. Cool. Okay. So Ron makes a comment that the application was not lengthy because it's not difficult to describe a human, unlike woodworking, like a dovetail technique. which by the way, I thought that was really f what's that?

Madi (59:16.94)
Yeah, very cool.

Madi (59:29.048)
Or a boat. Or a boat. He mentioned some sort of boat.

Holly (59:32.632)
Or a boat. Yes. Which is funny because to Ron that's you know, easy and just off the cuff, that's what he says, that's what he thinks. But to everyone else we're like, what even are those things? Those things are difficult. What are you talking about? but I would argue that they all have this the like a decent level of intricacy. You know what I mean? Both people and woodworking. But I d I understand what he's saying. Woodworking it's like

Madi (59:54.936)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Agree.

Holly (01:00:01.316)
There's a formula to it. You know what I mean? But like we've learned with all these architects, you can create new formulas and be famous for them. So just saying. I did look up what a dovetail technique was because I was just really interested. And this isn't as long of a breakdown, but it's a highly durable woodworking joint used to connect two pieces of wood at a 90 degree angle. And apparently it gets its name from the interlocking wedge, which is very distinctive in shape, and it resembles a bird's.

Madi (01:00:10.914)
So true.

Holly (01:00:31.265)
spread tail feathers. That's where the dovetail thing comes from. Which I looked at a picture of it and I don't really see the feathers to be completely honest. But what do I know? You know? It is very used though. I I I looked at a picture and I was like, my gosh, that's in a lot of like drawers and cabinetry and stuff like that. So yeah.

Madi (01:00:33.171)
Got it. Okay.

Madi (01:00:44.525)
Yeah.

Madi (01:00:50.828)
Hm. Yeah, that makes sense.

Holly (01:00:53.805)
Yeah. Okay. my gosh. I did not realize that it was just one breakdown after another. Cause then she then he mentions Leon Trotsky. And I was like, you could be er what I think he compares her to Leon Trotsky and I was like, who is that?

Madi (01:01:03.544)
Mm-hmm.

Holly (01:01:11.603)
And again, this isn't super long, but and you guys, there are people who I think study him. So if you are one of those people, just skip ahead thirty seconds because I did not go that far deep into it. But he led the nineteen seventeen Russian Revolution, but he was also a ruthless military leader who suppressed dissent with violence. So lots of schools of thought on like whether he was good or bad. but he was anti Stalin. So that's I think

Good in our books. he championed a more democratic and internationalist form of socialism through his theory called permanent revolution. but he was also, yeah, a key figure in the Russian Civil War. and let's see, there was something else too. he was assassinated in 1940 by one of Stalin's agents, actually. So he was a prominent figure in Russian Soviet history, but it sounds like he was against Stalin's, you know, authoritarianism and totalitarianism.

Madi (01:01:35.468)
Good. Yeah.

Holly (01:02:05.204)
but he was intense. Like, did you ever z did you see one battle after another?

Madi (01:02:10.038)
No, I haven't seen that yet.

Holly (01:02:11.767)
Okay, so basically, and it's not a spoiler, but like it's like we're on the good side, but we're using violence in a way, if that makes sense. That's kinda how I feel like he was seen, you know what I mean? so it's like that's why there's this tension politically of like, is that good or bad? You know, like are we the good guys that use violence, you know, or not? So anyway, but he did he was very prominent. So I don't think and I don't think it was right that he was assassinated, so that sucks.

Madi (01:02:24.907)
Yeah.

Madi (01:02:30.06)
Yeah.

Madi (01:02:33.752)
Right.

Holly (01:02:42.201)
So anyway, that's what he's comparing Leslie to, which, you know, I I know it's like a higher form or whatever. This is terrible, but at the same time I I kinda like I could see it. Like she's on the good side, but she uses her force for good for the most part, but sometimes it's it's questionable, you know?

Madi (01:02:54.016)
Yeah.

Madi (01:03:00.672)
Yeah. Yeah, for real. I can get there. Yeah.

Holly (01:03:04.857)
So anyhow, I and I just kinda had this note too that it's wild how these writers just like throw this shit in just like randomly as a one liner. Like, do they I I made me question like, do they do this research on their own to put into the episode? It's like the chicken and the egg thing. That did they already know the names of these people and just be like, that'd be a fun person to put in here or did they like do the research for the episode? So it's just crazy 'cause it's it happens all the time in this show.

Madi (01:03:24.727)
Yeah.

Madi (01:03:30.948)
yeah. Yeah. It's gotta be intentional to a point.

Holly (01:03:32.399)
So yeah. So anyway, Ron says if they were to work together on the application, he says this, she would drive me insane if we would most likely kill each other. And then it is cute, you do see this Ron moment where he's remembering things that she didn't even remember. So like you do see this relationship that he has this closeness and depth with her, like we were talking about before, that he does not have with everyone else. And that's probably why it was more painful for him to go through this.

Madi (01:03:57.846)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Holly (01:04:01.742)
So he says, you forgot the last sentence and it says hire her. And that was really special, I feel.

Madi (01:04:10.71)
Yeah. Yeah. And it's a drawback to times in the past where they've butted heads, but they've always had respect for each other because they're willing to have the hard conversations. You know, they're willing to yell at each other if they don't agree. so yeah. Key. Yeah.

Holly (01:04:18.307)
Mm-hmm.

Holly (01:04:24.213)
Yeah. Yeah. We kind of have like an agree to disagree, but yeah, the respect is and the trust is is probably the most prominent thing. So this is when the cleaner comes in across the way, and is listening to I feel like a woman and they want him to save them. They keep you know, yelling at him and he's just not getting it because he's listen he's listening to this song on full blast. and yes, like we talked about before, this cleaner is listening to the same song in Lil Sebastian, which was two thousand eleven.

Which is crazy. So like four years prior, when he interrupts the moment of silence for Lil Sebastian's little memorial moment. which that's an amazing callback. I really think that was so especially the song and everything. my God. That's so good.

Madi (01:05:05.364)
It is.

It's gotta it's gotta be even if it's not the same actor, it the intention is for it to be the same person.

Holly (01:05:15.764)
yeah. I I would think so too. It's so funny. And

Madi (01:05:19.084)
They just got him somebody for Christmas got him headphones so that they didn't have to listen to Shania Twain every time.

Holly (01:05:22.999)
Yeah. Right. Exactly. my God. Apparently the internet said this would have been Mark's office that the cleaner would have been cleaning. Which tracks because I remember Mark looking across the way at Amy's or Ad Leslie's. So that's fun. That's a cool tidbit. I wouldn't have probably even thought of that.

Madi (01:05:32.78)
Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Mm hmm.

Holly (01:05:44.058)
So Leslie asks why Ron even hired her, which is a valid question. and I love the comment that she says he was wearing the same exact outfit because he always wears the same thing. But I will say, I don't know if you remember this, but in like season one, he was wearing like suit jackets. They weren't like suits like Chris Traeger wore, but the he had blazers on at the beginning, if you can believe it. And then he slowly morphed into just wearing what he's wearing now.

Madi (01:05:54.017)
Yeah.

Madi (01:06:02.71)
Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Madi (01:06:09.206)
Yeah. Yeah, they found Ron's rhythm.

Holly (01:06:11.871)
Mm-hmm. So this is the point where we're seeing that Ron remembers a lot more than Leslie does at this point. And she thought that was it, but he remembers her tirade. He called her or she called him a heartless thug. And I love that he said this is to your point with the respect and the trust that he says she's stood up for what she believed in. And that was the part where he was won over because he would rather work with

someone who respects and who stands up for what they believe in, than just some weird yes man. Which I think that's kind of the thesis of their relationship in a lot of ways.

Madi (01:06:44.962)
Yeah.

Madi (01:06:50.616)
So true.

Holly (01:06:52.233)
but that's also that's a another funny part, kind of breaks the it has some comedic breaking here where or comedic tension breaking, whatever the word for that is, where she says that she made brownies or he said that she made brownies and that is why he really hired her.

Madi (01:07:07.936)
Yeah. Love it.

Holly (01:07:10.287)
I love this too, where she says, I promise I would never raise my voice at you if we were to work together. yeah, optimistic is right. Okay. She was like, Boy, I was optimistic. Yes. So then we've got Leslie saying, you know, come on, we've talked about a lot. Like we've come so far. Look at this. Like, let's just bring it home. Like, let's get to the root of it. And then

Madi (01:07:18.508)
Yeah yeah. Yeah. Lies.

Holly (01:07:38.177)
Again, Ron can't do it. He cannot do it and so he pulls the fire alarm and it's just for sprinklers because April kept pulling it so the fire department disconnected it. that's illegal. April. Not that you mind that it's illegal, but I'm just saying.

Madi (01:07:47.788)
That checks. Yeah. yeah. Yeah. It tracks with her character though.

Holly (01:07:55.802)
So they get soaked. Yeah, it does. So now they're all wet and we get another cut to three thirty seven AM. They've changed into dry clothes. Craig is studying yoga, so his yoga outfit is the dry pair of clothes that Ron could find, which I think is really funny to have him in this like amaz that's a funny comedy tool too, to put them in wardrobe that is totally outside of their view. That was something we did in

Madi (01:08:19.328)
Yeah.

Madi (01:08:23.488)
It's also relaxed.

Holly (01:08:25.591)
Also relax. That's true too. I remember that was an improv technique too, a lot that would make me laugh all the time when like a scene was going on and then someone in the back line could be like, He's wearing a cape and it would just make me laugh because you don't w especially with improv, like you are wearing your clothes, like you don't have wardrobe. So to have someone throw in a visual is so fun, I think. So that w and which, you know.

Madi (01:08:43.958)
Yeah.

Madi (01:08:50.327)
Yeah.

Holly (01:08:53.153)
Maybe that was a technique that some of these writers did 'cause they all did improv too.

Madi (01:08:57.38)
yeah. I love it.

Holly (01:08:59.043)
I don't know how Leslie found her clothes. I don't know what clothes those are. There's a little Sebastian shirt underneath that hoodie, so I'm sure that was around 'cause they had merch. But I don't know what the the s the hoodie was or the shirt was. Maybe it was like one of old one of April's old ones. I don't know.

Madi (01:09:01.74)
Yeah, good question. It

Madi (01:09:08.971)
Right.

Madi (01:09:16.074)
Yeah, and I'm not sure like who else we know in in the like in the parks department anymore, yeah, to know who it would belong to.

Holly (01:09:21.743)
Parks department. Yeah. Right. Well, whatever. Neither here nor there. They found some dry clothes. and I do like that they mentioned Craig. I don't think that we really understand or thought about who was running parks now. and so I think it's interesting to that they bring him up.

Madi (01:09:39.565)
Mm-hmm.

Madi (01:09:43.628)
Yeah.

Holly (01:09:44.778)
but I am wondering like whose job does he have? Does he have Ron's job or Leslie's job or both? I think Leslie's job.

Madi (01:09:52.024)
Probably Leslie's job.

Holly (01:09:52.151)
And then maybe once Ron left he moved up, I don't know.

Madi (01:09:56.234)
Yeah, well yeah, because weren't his clothes in Ron's office. So yeah, that would track.

Holly (01:10:00.836)
I think so.

Holly (01:10:04.599)
Yeah. So Leslie's like, look, you've tried everything, you've tried to escape. There's nowhere to run. Just talk to me. And this was so cute, this little picture of Ron and Leslie and Lil Sebastian, very precious, again bringing back like little Sebastian really brought them together, didn't he?

Madi (01:10:19.094)
Yeah. Yeah, he really did. Still from the grave he's healing people.

Holly (01:10:26.391)
Mm-hmm. So Ron finally starts talking, which thank God there's alcohol there because that helped. And I was wondering where he got this actually. But again, there's a lot that you had to had to kind of suspend reality. But there's a deleted scene here where he finds a little secret compartment in the wall of Ron's old office. He does this like hand gesture thing. He like places his arm on the wall like perpendicular and then pats it or or like

pounds it a little bit with his arm and then this secret compartment at the bottom of the wall opens and it's like perfectly what's the word? Preserved, if you will, like two glasses and a bottle of Lagobolin. I know.

Madi (01:11:07.318)
That's awesome. my gosh. And so Ron that he definitely put that in there.

Holly (01:11:11.319)
So Ron, he has all these secret compartments. He had the bacon one in the hallway that one time when Tammy came, like all the rations of food. Bacon in his office, too. I remember that. So, anyhow, Leslie left, then Terry, then April is what Ron says. So Ron's face is so sad at this growing.

Madi (01:11:17.409)
Yeah.

Madi (01:11:20.95)
Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Holly (01:11:35.531)
going away party thing for April. Like we didn't get that at the beginning and now we're seeing Ron's side, which they did a really good job of having Leslie state her side first. And now we're gonna have Ron say his side. and yeah, I I think Nick Offerman did such a fantastic job, like with his facial expression there of like, what a little puppy. He's so heartbroken. Like great work there.

Madi (01:11:56.862)
Yeah. This was I felt like there's just so much great acting from Nick Offerman in this in this entire episode. Just 'cause we're so we're so focused on him as a character here, rather than just like his side comments and all of that and his facial expressions, they do such a great job. And it is you feel so sorry for him. Like here.

Holly (01:12:04.696)
Mm-hmm.

Mm.

Holly (01:12:21.237)
Yeah, and I think go ahead.

Madi (01:12:23.85)
No, I was just gonna say like I'm also wondering like how did nobody notice?

Holly (01:12:28.009)
Yeah, that that's sad too. Yeah. How did nobody notice? Because again, I guess everyone was gone. And but even Donna and Ron or Donna and Tom worked together with him, but I guess they were so focused on their other things. But yeah, Ron got left behind. And I I do think that's interesting to me because I think I don't I mean, I can't really recall when we've ever seen him be sad.

We've seen him have all these other emotions, anger, frustration, maybe disappointment, but and like but not s sadness, yeah. And that is a really heavy thing to feel, or depression even, I think, because of growth, sure, but also just like feeling stuck a tiny bit, I think. Like, so then he says that he, you know, really thought that April was his

Madi (01:13:03.64)
Annoyed.

Holly (01:13:27.129)
closest workplace proximity associate after Leslie left and after Tom and Donna left. and so he was really heartbroken. And then this part, I'm not gonna lie to you, I I like I had tears in my eyes when I was watching it because he like again, that expression from Nick when he looked up and didn't recognize anyone, it like really broke my heart for him.

Madi (01:13:29.922)
Yeah.

Madi (01:13:49.74)
Yeah.

Holly (01:13:49.792)
And he was just like every and especially like I gotta say, I don't know who staged it or whatever, if it was the director Beth McCarthy, or if this was written this way, or maybe a little bit of both. But the staging of the camera being outside, on all of the people that were laughing and joking and the new people and Ron being stuck in his office where he's always been for ten plus whatever the fuck years, just trapped in there, eating his sandwich like he always eats his sandwich, was so brilliant.

Madi (01:14:15.08)
Mm.

Holly (01:14:19.335)
and was really a great illustration of like the divide that happened between those people, the new people in him.

Madi (01:14:28.214)
Yeah. And that he's really alone in there because the crew isn't in there either.

Holly (01:14:31.009)
Yes, there's no one else in there.

Yeah, yeah. And I think this is really relatable for so many people. because your friends, your coworkers, the world just kind of moving on without you and you're in the same place, that can be so overwhelming and depressing. And honestly, at the end of the day, it's grief. He lost a lot of things that he used to have. And grief is has no bounds. I mean, it just sucks you in and you there's not really a way to like

Madi (01:14:53.357)
Yeah.

Madi (01:15:01.238)
Yeah.

Holly (01:15:03.501)
get over it apart from like processing and accepting it. And so I think he goes through his sadness first. But yeah, you're right. Like even the crew isn't in there. He's just by himself.

Madi (01:15:06.849)
Yeah.

Madi (01:15:14.892)
Yeah. Yeah.

Holly (01:15:16.513)
It's crazy. So that part was really emotional for me when he's finally explaining that. And like you said, great work to Nick for just his like vocal inflections as well. I just felt like it was all really well done.

Madi (01:15:28.236)
Yeah. This is I feel like this is the most acting we've gotten out of it. Like the really like the more dramatic acting, right? Like he's been so great at like the comedic stuff, but this is the most emotion we've seen out of him. so mmm. Yeah.

Holly (01:15:37.017)
Germanic, yeah.

Holly (01:15:42.616)
Yeah. Or like maybe the longest of because we've seen him have bits and pieces of those dramatic acting when he says his metaphors, when he's talking Leslie down, when, you know, all those kinds of things. But Yeah, absolutely. That kind of stuff. And so I think this is where and I'm Ron doesn't have a therapist, okay. So this is this might be the first time and maybe he's talked to Diane about it. I don't know. But this might be the first time

Madi (01:15:53.976)
Mm. When he reads his poem in Scotland.

Holly (01:16:11.907)
That he's talking about this ever, you know, to the person that this is about, which is hard.

Madi (01:16:13.706)
Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Very hard.

Holly (01:16:21.327)
So that's in his grief slash, you know, feelings, he made this decision to visit Leslie and asked her to lunch and she stood him up. And this is also like this part, okay, I did have a moment. I was like, Leslie, are you being so for real? I know you're busy, but sh she forgot it within the next heartbeat. It was like

Madi (01:16:44.086)
Very unlessly of her. Very unlessly.

Holly (01:16:45.707)
I know. Like it's one thing to like have a day go by and then you're like, shit, I didn't put that on my calendar. But you just agreed to have lunch tomorrow and you set the time. Like, no. And then she's like on the phone saying, We got I gotta go to Washington, all these things, and I'm like

Madi (01:16:57.504)
Yeah. Yeah. And

Holly (01:17:06.741)
No. That sucks.

Madi (01:17:07.168)
Yeah. The Leslie We know, I think would have been like, April we have to go to we have to go to Washington. I just made lunch plans with Ron. Can you call him and tell him we'll reschedule when I get back? And then her forgetting to reschedule when they get back makes more sense to me. But her forgetting in that split moment, like he's not even like the elevator doors haven't even closed. And he's forgot and she's forgotten. And it's

Holly (01:17:18.157)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Holly (01:17:28.409)
Correct.

Yeah.

Madi (01:17:33.11)
I th that would have worked both ways. He's been forgotten. Like it's it's so sad.

Holly (01:17:37.549)
I know, it's really sad. And when I watch it I always wonder if he heard her say that, that he was able to that she had to go to Washington. I don't think that he did, otherwise I don't know if he would have shown up or something, but but 'cause it was chaotic. But maybe he did, I don't know.

Madi (01:17:44.312)
Mm.

Madi (01:17:52.352)
I

Yeah, I don't know. I always thought that I saw a little smile on his face when the elevator doors were closing. Like he's looking forward to tomorrow. So I don't think he heard, just from my h my perspective of watching.

Holly (01:18:00.272)
Mm, so he didn't hear it.

Yeah.

Yeah, I don't think so either. Yeah, and I guess that that's a good illustration of like just how overcome and overtaken by this job that she has let herself be. or not let herself, y that's a bad way to put it, but you know what I mean? Like it's just s snowballed. And yeah, so that part really sucks when she didn't forget or when she didn't remember just in that one split second, you know? And he did look around at the office and stuff and

Madi (01:18:25.089)
Yeah.

Madi (01:18:32.225)
Yeah.

Holly (01:18:36.339)
noticed that she was really busy, so that probably like that's d to the point of like whether or not he saw her or whatever, I would say that he was just looking around. Like he saw how busy she was, like she's like he says, but he probably didn't hear her.

Madi (01:18:47.191)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Holly (01:18:51.657)
Ugh, so awful. But anyway, that's not even the rest of the story. That's not like the only th like ending or whatever. and also the whole sadness of Ron being at JJ's by himself and being stood up. That sucks. and

Madi (01:18:57.098)
Yeah.

Madi (01:19:03.382)
Mm-hmm. Well yeah, and it I think this is one of those parts where I I'm like, Ron, I would have you should have tr tried again, right? Like, hey, she's busy. Th it sucks. It's not okay that I got stood up. It's not okay that she forgot about me. But I'm gonna call her and be like, Hey, you forgot about lunch. Like, but I still really wanna go out to lunch with you. You know, like but I think that the the shame of the what he was wanting to go to lunch for probably

Holly (01:19:25.485)
Yeah.

Madi (01:19:33.876)
Think like did not help him going back.

Holly (01:19:35.352)
Yeah. Yeah, totally. I know that's hard too because I don't know, as I get older sometimes if people like were to show up or not show up or cancel on me, a part of me is like, Okay, well, is it even worth it to keep going? Because I've tried multiple times. And to him that was his multiple times, even though it wasn't, but it like you said kind of like that was him trying kind of thing.

So he but I hear what you're saying. I think I would have at least texted and or something and been like, Are you coming? question mark. and then I would have needed some time. I would not have immediately gone to lunch the next day, probably. I would have probably been like, I can't do tomorrow, but I can do in like a month if I still feel like it. But no, you're right. yeah, I I feel like the idea that she just forgot is also a whole

Madi (01:20:04.928)
Yeah. Yeah.

Madi (01:20:11.54)
No no no. Yeah.

Holly (01:20:27.545)
thing in Ron's head where that's the catalyst for him being like, well, she doesn't care. It's fine. She doesn't even care to like message me that she's not gonna be here. So I guess it's just like, well, I'll move on now. I still don't think that he should have, you know, bulldozed Anne's house, but that's where his mindset was for the part of the friendship. You know what I mean? So Yeah. So anyway

Madi (01:20:28.46)
Hertz.

Yeah.

Holly (01:20:53.783)
Leslie's like, so that wasn't it? And we learned that it was a huge deal that Ron was actually and she figures it out that he was going to ask her for something and he was gonna ask for a job in the federal government. Terrible for him to have to do that, but he missed his friends and he wanted to be in a familiar environment. He wanted to be with people that he knew. And I love that Leslie is really sorry. She does apologize. She doesn't say like, well, why didn't you reach back out? Why didn't you like message me?

Madi (01:21:14.773)
Yeah.

Madi (01:21:19.137)
Yeah.

Holly (01:21:20.013)
She just says, my God, I'm so sorry. And her face is heartbroken too. Like you can tell that she really feels awful about this. She can't she almost can't like fathom that she even did that. Like I can't believe I didn't see it. I can't believe I didn't even think about it. Like, which I know is not the best like remedy, you know. it's on the other person to like forgive or whatever. But like I love that she didn't say, like, why didn't you try again?

Madi (01:21:25.704)
Yeah.

Holly (01:21:48.173)
Hello you know, even though he could have and he should have probably. But she puts the onus on herself.

Madi (01:21:48.5)
Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

Holly (01:21:56.202)
And Ron is right. I mean, I do think it would have worked out that way where, you know, when he says like it was the period on a long sentence or whatever his metaphor is. But because he didn't like what he was doing, he even a and I we've said this before where we talk about this all the time, where we quit people, not jobs, or we stay for people, not for the job. You know what I mean? So that tie to that office is no longer there. So it's like, what am I even here for? When you lose that,

Madi (01:22:15.468)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Holly (01:22:25.529)
purpose there, it's like, you're just not happy, so

Madi (01:22:27.916)
Yeah. I didn't like this job anyway. I just loved Leslie, April, Donna, Tom, you know.

Holly (01:22:33.495)
Exactly. Yeah. And Leslie did everything for him. So it's like it's not he wasn't even really there for the job. He was kinda just there for the people, literally. So Yeah. And he does say he regrets bulldozing Anne's house, or the nurse's house, as he calls her. But he doesn't ever actually say the words I'm sorry, which kind of like bothered me a little bit. But he does say he regretted it, which I think is is

Madi (01:22:37.922)
Yeah. His life was easy.

Madi (01:22:43.638)
Yeah.

Holly (01:23:01.847)
It's not enough for me personally, but it is something.

Madi (01:23:04.768)
It's yeah, it's a wrong step in the right direction.

Holly (01:23:06.913)
Yeah. Right. And then he has this little moment where he says, he looked around and nothing was the same. And she says, Well, there's a way to fix that. And that's when it's five forty four AM and they do end up playing Buddy by Willie Nelson, which I love. And they have this montage of them cleaning

Putting things back the way it used to be. And of course they're doing all of this drunk because they've been drinking at this point. It's so cute and emotional. Doing these yoga stretches. The waffle painting comes back. The mice wheel thing from the quote murinal episode. I know. Totally. I mean my gosh, yeah. The storage closets that these offices have is so crazy.

Madi (01:23:42.922)
Yeah. I can't believe all the all this stuff was kept. And a coffee maker and like

Madi (01:23:56.128)
Yeah. yeah. I would kill for that storage that you could keep all that those paintings.

Holly (01:23:57.641)
I do wanna

Yeah. I do briefly want to play a deleted scene actually when Ron is in his office by himself. Craig comes in and I'm really glad they cut it. We'll talk about it after, but I'll just go ahead and play it.

Holly (01:24:41.835)
my gosh, Craig. So much. And I know I I am sad that he's not in it as much in this season. He will come back a little bit later. But at the same time, I have to say I'm glad they cut it because that's at that point when I was getting really emotional. And if they had had Craig come in, it would have broken all of that emotion tension, love for Ron. It

Madi (01:24:43.084)
He is so much.

Madi (01:25:04.332)
Mm-hmm.

Holly (01:25:06.933)
it really would not have been the same, I think. we don't we did not need that comedic relief, at that point. No. Especially because he's when I was that's the part when I was talking about the camera angles of like everybody being out there and he's inside his office by himself, no crew, no nothing. And then Craig comes in and you're like, that broke that. So I think we could talk about Craig maybe in another way or like they did with the yoga pants. I think that was enough. This is about Ron and Leslie and it it w it should have stayed that way. So

Madi (01:25:10.389)
I agree.

Madi (01:25:13.878)
No, not right there. Yeah.

Madi (01:25:27.927)
Yeah.

Holly (01:25:36.597)
I am sorry for Billy Eichner to have that cut, of course, but as I am for every actor, but when you really look at the holistic view of it, it should not have been in there.

Madi (01:25:39.434)
Yeah.

Madi (01:25:47.766)
Yeah. Agreed.

Holly (01:25:48.944)
So. Anyway, so back to our drunk re-organizing, redecorating. this is 7:59 a.m. They're fully drunk. Somehow they found a saxophone and they're having some sort of karaoke moment. Craig comes in and gets all frustrated. So at least he's in this episode, okay? He says, You're gonna stretch out the elastic. And this is much more Craig vibe episode vibe. Appropriate time, correct? Yeah. So

Madi (01:26:08.096)
Yes. He got to ca yeah, he The appropriate time, yep.

Holly (01:26:18.455)
And then this the part where she says, We're sorry and it's the fart and the saxophone thing, it's just perfect. Like the it looks like they've planned it or they've practiced it or they've done it a couple of times, like when he found the sax, like

Madi (01:26:25.14)
It's so good.

Madi (01:26:31.488)
It's so good. And everybody's re like facial expressions and reactions to how they are right now. It just it's like, yes, they're being crazy, but this is what they wanted. They wanted to come back to them in this space. And so I think to see it's it's not only happiness on everybody's face, but kind of like relief that we're we're back here now. And we don't all because they've all been slaves to this, especially because of the the war for the land.

Holly (01:26:33.441)
It's all good.

Holly (01:26:46.478)
Yes.

Holly (01:26:51.64)
Yes.

Madi (01:27:00.918)
Like they've all been slaves to this conflict between Leslie and Ron and so I think it's relief for that piece too that they're like, Okay, we're the same gang again, we're, you know, in a different space, but you know

Holly (01:27:12.449)
Yeah. And I said, this in the last episode where I feel like the parks crew was like the kids and mommy and daddy were fighting and we don't know how to handle it and we're like really freaking out a little bit, but like they're all adults. So of course that metaphor does not fully comprehend, but it feels that way. And so this is like where the kids like, they made up, thank God. And we see them and we witness them making up, you know what mean? Which is really important.

Madi (01:27:23.615)
Mm-hmm.

Madi (01:27:33.782)
Mm-hmm.

Madi (01:27:37.612)
Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Holly (01:27:42.261)
So yeah, that's nice.

Madi (01:27:44.472)
Agree.

Holly (01:27:45.584)
so anyhow, okay, so April says she moved all the meetings because she's simult Leslie is simultaneously drunk and hungover. Good call. But it's Ron that's come to see her. Yep, it is. But it's Ron that's come to see her, not anyone else. And Leslie hugs Ron and to see them hugging is so beautiful and tender, it's so precious. She has three years of hugs to force upon his will.

Madi (01:27:55.116)
That's possible.

Madi (01:28:09.772)
Yes, I love it.

Holly (01:28:11.971)
So Ron has a gift, well, he says object, but pe and peace offering, but it is a gift, okay? And it's the frame that's the gift, not the actual picture. And the wood from the frame is from Anne's house. And yeah, see, that's that's what proves to me that he knew exactly what he was doing, and he knew it would be bad, and that if they ever made up that that's what he would give her or whatever.

Madi (01:28:17.371)
Mm.

Holly (01:28:36.483)
But that's where I'm like wondering, how did you think that was gonna happen? How did you think you were gonna just make up? Like you weren't gonna do it. Were you just like waiting for her to do it as per usual? Like, I know this is supposed to be a really happy, nice moment and whatever, but I just couldn't help but think, how were you gonna ever give that to her? You were not going to be in charge of that. You would have maybe you would have left it on our door and not had a conversation and hoped that would be enough. But like, is that it?

Madi (01:28:36.683)
Yeah.

Madi (01:28:41.792)
Yeah.

Madi (01:28:46.838)
Yeah.

Madi (01:28:54.25)
Yeah.

Madi (01:29:01.408)
Yeah. Yeah. It's sh it's a it's a good symbol for that he hadn't given up and that he had hope. Now, does that mean he was gonna he was gonna fight for it the way that Leslie was gonna fight for it? No. But I think it is nice to see that he hadn't fully written her off. He there was hope that they would get back to a place that he could give this to her. But you're right, like

Holly (01:29:05.25)
So

Holly (01:29:12.823)
Yeah. That's true.

Holly (01:29:29.571)
Yeah. That's a good point.

Madi (01:29:31.488)
He she was gonna have to push for it.

Holly (01:29:33.743)
Yeah, that's a much nicer point. May I guess both can be true at the same time, but and and you're you're right that he it's not yeah, it's hope, but it's also like he didn't want it to be fully over. I guess that's what helps me. Yeah, that's a good way to phrase it. and Leslie says, You big fat giant sap. I like that part too.

Madi (01:29:37.633)
Yes, they can.

Madi (01:29:56.055)
Yeah, me too.

Holly (01:29:57.359)
because I I'm sure I do think he was hiding it well, but I I don't think he was just doing this and forgetting about it. I think like which this proves, like you said. and even though I do have my like angers with Ron, I don't like this whole episode proved that he was thinking it was eating him up inside and he was thinking about it. He was not doing this callously. I mean, yes, callously, but like he wasn't doing it and then just be and not even knowing what he was doing. Like he was fully aware slash heartbroken at the same time, you know?

Like a lot of villains are, but he had a villain moment. Okay, he did. But some villains don't even know what they're doing is bad, and that's just like that's psychotic. I don't think Ron is quite to the psychosis yet.

Madi (01:30:32.414)
Yes, he did. That he did.

Madi (01:30:40.534)
Yeah. No, no. Mm mm, no.

Holly (01:30:45.658)
But anyway, so yeah, I was gonna say it is cute that they keep Anne in the story. I had that in the notes as well, that they, you know, mention her name a couple of times. now she has the rings from that Ron made from the sconces and this frame for you know, the from Anne's house. So that's kinda nice. She has two mementos from her home.

Madi (01:31:05.505)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Holly (01:31:10.426)
So then they go to J J's to eat too breakfast food and I love this quote. Why do people eat anything other than breakfast food? People are idiots, Ron. And we have heard this before. This was a quote that was in summer catalogue, which was the end of season two, which is so crazy that that is how far we've come.

Madi (01:31:25.376)
Yeah. Yeah. Great great consistency that they love their breakfast food and that they get to connect together over breakfast food.

Holly (01:31:27.172)
Wild.

Holly (01:31:34.528)
Mm. Yeah, absolutely. And finally go to JJ's. speaking of food, there is a moment where if anyone was wondering about what they ate during that time, Ron was very, very hungry and there was a deleted scene that I just thought I'd play for you real fast. And it brings up Sweetems again, which is hilarious.

Madi (01:31:49.26)
Yeah.

Holly (01:32:22.084)
And then they go on like a whole tangent fight again about like who's gonna split it, are they gonna split it? Are you just gonna take it? Which again, it was a whole Ron thing where I was like, my god, Ron! You can't even split a freaking candy bar. You're crazy. I know. But I do love that commentary on the expiration date is don't worry about it. And that they Yes, and that they legally couldn't use the word chocolate, so they had to say like chocolate or laut or whatever.

Madi (01:32:33.804)
Yeah, come on, bro. my gosh.

Madi (01:32:40.8)
Yeah. my gosh. That sounds very sweet, Mzy.

Madi (01:32:49.903)
my gosh.

Holly (01:32:50.954)
my god, so funny. but yeah, so if anyone was wondering how many snacks and dinners Ron eats, there's that. And you know, if they were hungry. Yes, that's what I was thinking too. Very Lord of the Rings vibes. my gosh, so fun. Well, that's all I've got for this one. Do you have any other notes?

Madi (01:32:53.014)
Yikes.

Madi (01:32:58.892)
Yeah. It's like a call out to the the hobbits in Lord of the Rings. Love it. Mm hmm.

Madi (01:33:11.188)
No, I'm just so glad that we have Ron and Leslie back together and that we can conquer the rest of our final season with the whole gang back in their similar vibe rather than beefing with each other. So

Holly (01:33:22.946)
Yeah. I like that it took four episodes for us to get here. I like that it wasn't an immediate thing because especially if they wrote in that it had been three years that they haven't really spoken or that they were so mad at each other, I do feel like that's really good that it didn't happen immediately. And we needed we need I'm really glad they gave it their due diligence. I would love to have been in the writer's room at this point if people like you know, d to come to the idea that it needs to be

Madi (01:33:25.846)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Madi (01:33:40.726)
Yeah, agreed.

Holly (01:33:52.152)
one full episode of just them. Like I wonder if there was discussion of like, should we have someone else come in? Should we have a B story? There was no B story. There was nothing. It was just them. And I think that was absolutely necessary for for for the time we were given. If we had an hour, maybe, but you know, with that just twenty five minutes, twenty two minutes with the ads, it's like you've got to make that time specific to them, I think.

Madi (01:34:18.358)
Yeah. And I think r relationships have been such a key focus of this show that it was really important to give this relationship the time it deserved.

Holly (01:34:23.727)
Mm-hmm.

Holly (01:34:29.348)
Yeah, I agree. I agree. Okay, well, we'll be on to season five next week. Thank you so much for listening. Don't forget to rate, review, and subscribe. And I think that's all I've got for you.

Madi (01:34:39.896)
Perfect. We'll see you next time.

Holly (01:34:41.666)
Okay, see ya, bye.

Madi (01:34:48.405)
Okay.